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Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind

Posted by Vickie on 4/23/2008 2:18:49 PM.

I'm struggling with the decision of where my daughter will benefit most.  She is in 1st grade in the public school system and has a vision teacher two hours a day.  However they are indicating that she is two years behing her sited peers in reading, comprehension and now somewhat in math.  

Open for suggestions/experiences??????????

There are currently 33 replies.

      

  • 1 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by DKrishef on 04/24/2008

    Vicky - My son is 11, in 5th grade. He was as behind as your daughter when he was in 1st grade. He did go to a special ed program until 5th grade, but it was not specifically a school for the blind. We were told that blind kids generally begin reading late. Math is also exceptionally difficult. Solomon began reading when he was in 3rd grade. From that point on, his progress in everything but math was astounding. He quickly caught up to grade level. He still has OT and PT issues. He get O&M and also special work with keyboarding and JAWS (a windows-based screen reading program).

    My advice - keep on top of the IEP. Make sure that your daughter gets all the support that she needs. I wouldn't go out of your way to find a school for the blind. You might look at special ed programs, but a good public school can be as good. The best person to talk to would be a special ed VI consultant who can evaluate your daughter and give you some good advice.

    David



  • 2 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by nansolsaa on 04/27/2008

    I would agree with David. My daughter is in second grade. She attends our local elementary school. She is in the classroom and in the developmental room. She has individual instruction on braille, math, counting money, telling time. The time in the classroom has increased as she can better decide what is the important things to listen to.
    We trust our TVI as a guide. Reading was delayed and is still not quite on level. But the classroom worksheets are brailled and my daughter is reading them with her teachers. Keep all the goals and needs in the IEP so it is tracked and eventually accomplished.



  • 3 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Judith Lesner on 04/28/2008

    I think it is very important that you and the IEP Team make all placement decisions based on what you perceive as the needs of your child at a specific time/juncture. Then you can look at possible placements throught that filter. During my son's career we used a 0-3 generic disability program, VI pre-school on mainstream site, regular kindergarden with aide and VI resource room support, regular first through third without an aide and with VI resource room support, regular 4th grade with generic resource room support and VI itinerant, regular 5th and 6th with VI resource room support. After that we took a break from the public schools and went to the CA School for the Blind for a year of working on Blindness skills. Then middle and high schools in regular schools with itinerant VI and generic resource room support. After high school he spent a year at the Living Skills Center for the Visually Impaired before going off to college. It is important to remember that all programs have their strenths and weaknesses and that in my opinion -THERE ARE NO PERFECT PROGRAMS.

    Judith Lesner
    Family Connect Parent Coordinator



  • 4 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by dpkdkd on 05/01/2008

    Hi Vicki!!! I think that what Judith said is very true...it depends on each child's needs. I think that no matter where our kids...or any child goes to school...we as parents have to keep on top of where they are struggling...and approach the school (IEP Team) to brainstorm solutions ... come up with ideas on how we can help each child over whatever bump they are running into. I can say that Kimmie, although writing (Braille) at a level way beyond her peers...is struggling with reading and comprehension as well. I think that as another poster mentioned, as they get older (with help of course) it will get better...For Kimmie she is so focused on identifying what each letter she feels is....and then going back to re-read as she finishs a word...then realizing that it is a word...not a letter or a contraction...that she looses what she is reading...so comprehension of a story read is impossible right now. She is more focused on reading and identifying words. I think this is fairly normal at these early ages...What does your TVI say?



  • 5 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by ccd on 05/02/2008

    Has anyone here tried a Montessori education through grade school and beyond? I am considedring this and have VI Resources.

    Thanks,

    CCD



  • 6 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by rjharrell on 05/02/2008

    I agree with the others that say there is no "one size fits all" answer.

    The first questions I would be asking is *why* is your daughter so behind? Does she have any cognitive delays or other disabilities besides blindness? If not, is she getting enough practice with reading, writing, and math? There is nothing inherent in blindness itself that makes it harder to learn to read/write/ or learn mathematics. But, without the same exposure to braille as sighted children have with print, a lack of exposure and practice can lead children to fall behind, just as studies have shown that sighted children with no exposure to print prior to school, and no one at home who reads with their child struggle with learning to read and do not read on par with their peers who have rich literature and print exposure in their homes.

    Does your daughter have a brailler at home? Does she have braille books and magazines for enjoyment and pleasure at home? Does she have the opportunity to sit with adults at home who read to her while she follows along? Are math concepts reinforced while she is at home?

    Our daughter is multi-disabled. She has significant cognitive and developmental delays, a communication disorder, and autism in addition to her blindness. Her first two years we had her in a wonderful preschool program for multi-disabled students with VI support. It was a fantastic program--- the adult:student ratio was 1:1 and she really thrived there. This year she has done kindergarten in the School for the Blind, and she has once again thrived from a very small class size (five students, two adults). Next school year, we will be home schooling her, as that has always been the plan for all of our children.

    I will say though, that despite Clare's significant cognitive delays, she actually reads braille *better* than two of her braille reading classmates who have NO cognitive or developmental delays. Clare functions between 20-24 months in expressive speech, 25-30 months in receptive speech, and between 2-3 years of age in cognition and adaptive living skills. And on par with a three year old, she has mastered her entire alphabet and several key "sight" words that are part of her every day environment. She knows her name, body parts, names of shapes, her siblings' names, and the names of about 10 household objects we use all the time. In contrast, several of her peers are still struggling with their alphabet--- mostly because they entered school with no meaningful braille exposure until entering the classroom, and no reinforcement for braille when they get home.

    Children with normal sight fall behind their peers when they get no exposure to books outside of school, and/or when their parents are illiterate. With our blind children, we have to be very, very intentional about ensuring they have plenty of opportunities to read outside of school hours.

    I'm not implying that you do not do that, so please don't read this as me trying to assign blame to you! :-) But, as a coordinator with the Early Childhood Literacy project through the School for the Blind, this has really come to the fore-front as the largest stumbling block for literacy in children who are blind without additional disabilities. It is NOT "normal" for a blind child to be two years behind his/her peers in reading and comprehension. And whether your child goes to a School for the Blind, or a mainstream school with VI support, figuring out best practices in order to help your daughter achieve on par with her peers is still going to be an issue for the IEP team to address.

    :-)
    Rene



  • 7 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by kcartier1 on 05/05/2008

    hi there
    my son is 11 yrs old and in a charter school. The school is public with 300 students. his reading was behind in 2nd grade. He struggled to keep up. We held him back in 2nd and this made the difference. his self esteem is high and he has not struggled fo 2 years. each child is different. it is all about them, your pride has to stay out of the way. kyle is blind in one eye and has 20/200 in the other. he has to sit in the front of the room, use a slant board and there are safety rules put in place. the early intervention at the lighthouse of pinellas has made a big difference to kyle and our family. Kyle will have the opportunities that a sighted child has to be independent and successful. katherine cartier



  • 8 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Judith Lesner on 05/05/2008

    From our experience, small classes and small schools have been the key to our son's success from pre-school through college. We made a number of decisions based on the size of the program.



  • 9 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by shunt on 05/09/2008

    My daughter is in 2nd grade at our local school and is doing wonderfully in reading but has struggled with math on and off throughout the year. She is in her regular class all but 1 hour a day when she receives braille instruction. Every child is different and some may feel more comfortable in a school for the blind.As parents we must not be affraid to demand the services our children need if we decide on mainstreaming.



  • 10 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by ruddtwo on 05/17/2008

    Our son is 6 and in kindergarten at Overbrook School for the Blind. We decided to send him there when he turned 3. It was an incredibly hard decision, but one I will never regret. His class ratio is 2 to 1, with only 6 kids in the classroom. The teachers are specially trained in vision, so everything they do is based on the fact that Ethan is blind. Even their field trips are specially designed with their disability in mind. I agree that each and every child is a different case, but I can only say good things about sending our child to a blind school.



  • 11 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Judith Lesner on 05/17/2008

    Glad to hear that Ethan is doing so well. I think it is important for parents to keep an open mind about the spectrum of placements and to pick the one that fits the child's needs at that point in time. using that technique gives you the freedom to change the type of placement as your child's needs change.



  • 12 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by graciela on 07/09/2008

    Just back from attending my first NFB (National Federation of the Blind) Convention in Dallas and presenting to the National Organization of Parents of Blind Children, I can share these two bits on this topic. The first actionable gem comes from listening to the esteemed Dr. Ruby Riles speak on "good programs begin with good assessments":

    To find out if your child is getting sufficient/appropriate instruction in Braille (as in enough time with Braille at school, regardless of program), find out how much time sighted children his/her age spend accessing the printed word and writing. That's how much Braille instruction time your child needs. Not less. Then get that quantity written into the IEP to support the goals. Anything less is virtually guaranteeing your child will get behind and struggle to catch up.You can do this with math instruction time, technology access time, physical education, etc too -whatever your priorities at any given time.

    One of the mothers in attendance at this session shared how she did this, found that her daughter was getting 60 minutes A DAY less Braille time vs. sighted peers and successfully advocated to have an hour of 1-to-1 Braille instruction with an itinerant teacher added into IEP to insure equal access and progress towards literacy. It's done after standard school hours, it's enforced in the IEP and has kept her daughter from getting behind while preserving time in general ed classroom and other services. It's quite brilliant.

    It's quite obvious when you think about it: if our children get 5 less hours a week instruction in reading/writing vs. sighted peers, how exactly are they supposed to keep up? They won't.

    Hope this helps!

    Grace Tiscareno-Sato
    Author of "Letting Your Child's Wild Side Out: Raising the Wild and Confident VI Baby, Toddler and Preschooler”
    www.babymilagro.org/dvd



  • 13 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Shelli Moore on 07/30/2008

    Hi All,
    I agree that making the decision between mainstreaming and Schools for the Blind can be one of the hardest decisions parents will make. I all so agree that it depends an a spectrum of circumstances. For my daughter, the Arkansas School for the Blind was and is the best choice for us. Parker has ONH, has light vision only in one eye and nothing in the other. All of her teachers (including athletics and fine arts) are certified teachers of the visually impaired. A degree that is required to teach at the school as well as an education degree in subjects taught. Parker has had access to Braille materials in the classroom since pre-school on all subject matters and has mobility and orientation instruction for 2 to 3 times a week taught by a certified O&M. Parker is an academic student and is in academic classes. She participates in the Accelerated Reader Programs (as most all students at ASB ) and is involved in athletics. Parker also receives living skills/concept development instruction (ex. cutting food). She scored proficient on the ACTAAP (Arkansas State Wide Assessment). I could go on and on, but we are very please with her progress. I know that she needs to be prepared for the real world and I think mastering Braille, O&M, living skills, concept development etc. will most certainly give her the tools she needs to not only access information and go to college, but to lead a full self-sufficient happy life.

    Shelli Moore, M.Ed, TSVI
    ASB Early Intervention Program Director

    PS-Check out Parker's video on this website or on youtube :)



  • 14 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Shelli Moore on 08/08/2008

    I would also like to add that I'm pleased with the access Parker has to adaptive technology. She loves JAWS (screen reader) and the Braille Note and using refreshable Braille. I feel confident in her teachers that have been trained in AT and know that she is better off for it!
    Shelli Moore



  • 15 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by HongDiep on 08/22/2008

    My name is Diep. Ms. Judith Lesner, can you give me a call? My cell 228-235-0421. My son is visually impaired and from the reading some of the respond you have given; I was just wondering if we could talk. I am debating on the school for the blind for my son. I live on the Gulf Coast of MS, and there is only one VI consultant for all the school districts south of Jackson, MS. Please call. Thank you in advance for your help. I have emailed someone in Fort Walton, FL from Family Connect but she never email me back.



  • 16 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Vickie on 08/27/2008

    Well to just give everyone who was so kind to respond. We are still main streaming and she is in 2nd grade. We got her first spelling list of 15 words for a test on Friday and three poems for the week. We are very fortunate to have a tutor now and hopefully with that she will start to catch up. I will keep you all posted as we get more into the school year. Thanks and I always look forward to advise.



  • 17 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Judith Lesner on 08/29/2008

    Please do keep us informed, I especially love to know how things turn out.
    judith



  • 18 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by fionajim on 09/25/2008

    My son has bilateral colobomas Blind in his rt eye and 20/300 in his lf eye He uses a CCTV/Large print at times
    He is in 3rd grade we transitioned to Braille for his reading medium middle of 2nd grade His skills are not currently on Grade level He was frustrated with learning and had eye fatique.
    He has a VI teacher for one hour in Braille instruction daily He has just started the "yellow" Braille instructional book ( I think it is 1st reader )
    Who is going to give him his ELA grade in his report card My VI says she is giving a narrative for his grade but his report card will have blanks in it Is this important to follow up on this or do I consentrate on other issues which I think I have enough of!
    I need help in writing goals for him also
    Is there a limit of hours he needs to be in his regular ed class to maintain as mainstreamed? My VI says if he is out for long periods he will have to be put into a selfcontained class
    He is an academic but they never had a VI child through there school
    Any Summer camps out there that do Braille So that he can maintain what he has learned My school district doesn't know of any!



  • 19 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Judith Lesner on 11/07/2008

    Hi Vikki and everybody,

    This sit has has had a large number of posts showing lots of interest. I am curious to know how things are working out for all your students this school year? Are you pleased with your choice of placement? Consifering a change? want to share good news about child's progress - please share.
    Judith



  • 20 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by chunga21 on 04/20/2009

    Gabrielle attend the school for the blind in our state until she was in the first grade. She started attending regular public school in the 2nd grade. She is now in the 4th grade and doing well. Might I suggest that you have her IEP done or revised so that her grades reflect her impairment. Gabrielle is graded on a scale meaning that if she gets a 65 she is scaled up to 75 to compensate for her disability. Mainstreaming your daughter is the best thing you can do for her. She will eventually be mainstreamed anyway.



  • 21 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Judith Lesner on 04/27/2009

    Hi,
    I think it is very important that the family and the IEP team look at where the child is at the moment, what they see as her needs at that time, set goals and then look to see what placement seems to have greatest possibility of helping to reach those goals. Different programs fit different needs at different times. I personally distrust a "one size fits all" approach.
    Judith



  • 22 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by kalfonso on 06/02/2009

    My daughter is in 3rd grade and has had 15 hours of a Teacher of the Visually Impaired every day. I agree that a child being behind in math or reading may not be attributable to their blindness. My daughter is visually impaired but reads braille. So all of her reading, math is done in braille. She is mainstreamed in a public school and even though she is in 3rd grade she is in 4th grade math and reads at the 5th grade level. I learned braille so that I could help her with her homework and with her reading when she was a new reader. Additionally, I always have lots of braille books around so she has become an avid reader. It is very important as has been mentioned that you stay on top of the IEP and the TVI's. A good TVI will understand why they are behind in reading or math and will develop an effective plan to get them on track.



  • 23 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Judith Lesner on 06/05/2009

    Hi Kim,
    Thanks for sharing. Am so happy to hear how well your daughter is doing. One thought - does she really have 15 hours of TVI services a DAY?
    Judith



  • 24 . Hopes and Fears for the New School Year
    Posted by pamNAPVIrep on 08/09/2011

    THRILLS AND CHILLS!

    No, it’s not Halloween; it’s the start of a new school year!

    Let’s talk about hopes and fears for the upcoming year. If your child won an award(s) this past year, please share it with us to promote “can do” school spirit!

    Thanks,


    Pam Stern

    Region 3 Representative

    National Association for Parents of Children with Visual Impairments

    pamstern3@gamil.com



  • 25 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind

    This post was deleted by the author on 10/24/2011


  • 26 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Marquise on 10/24/2011

    I think it's really sad that these public school don't think they should have to educate legally blind or blind children. They are still children who want to be accepted in a normal school setting. It's even sadder when Principal, teachers and other staff members join in to make life difficult for these children. When you report them at OCR they have a lawyer to protect them but the parent of the child in standing alone with out any support and that's why these school are getting away with this kind of activity day after day. It need to come to a stop. If a parent don't want to send there child to a school for the blind that's there choice not the school or Principal and any other staff member at that school. It's to bad that we can not choose our school personal.

    (This post was edited by the author on 10/24/2011 )



  • 27 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Marquise on 10/24/2011

    I think it's really sad that these public school don't think they should have to educate legally blind or blind children. They are still children who want to be accepted in a normal school setting. It's even sadder when Principal, teachers and other staff members join in to make life difficult for these children. When you report them at OCR they have a lawyer to protect them but the parent of the child is standing alone with out any support and that's why these school are getting away with this kind of activity day after day. It need to come to a stop. If a parent don't want to send there child to a school for the blind that's there choice not the school or Principal and any other staff member at that school. It's to bad that we can not choose our school personal.

    (This post was edited by the author on 10/24/2011 )



  • 28 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by zombiemom37 on 11/28/2011

    My daughter was in the public school from Preschool to 1st grade. I took her out of public school because in my opinion the public system was failing her. She was ignored by the teacher's and by her peers. The school would not provide for her needs. I fought tooth and nail with the public school. And for that reason alone, I put her in a private school. She has her ups and downs, but is doing much better than her old school. They accommodate to her needs. And for once, she is making friends.



  • 29 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by DenMother on 09/20/2012

    How many hours a day for braille study for an eight year old in the 3rd grade without extra disabilities? I haven't even heard of math in braille yet, he is using manipulatives.
    My VI is wanting to retire, I felt like telling her to do so and make room for someone who want to be motivated about teaching oliver to catch up with his grade level. I am so angry with the mobility teacher he said even though he handed Oliver a cane, Oliver is not ready to use it. What ?? Come again, I am not dumb and they are pushing my buttons. Any suggestions?? Anything can be better than kicking them in the shins for such a comment as that one...LOL



  • 30 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by aggie0423 on 11/11/2012

    My son is in 11th grade right now, from low vision to no vision during the past two years in a public high school setting.He received High Honors multiple times,has an IA all day, TVI twice a month on site, O&M as needed..and just at the point when he needs to learn skills and put academics on second tier.Priorities first,I do believe School for the Blind is part of our lives sooner or later, we're not superpowered parents, and we don't know it all..It is important for the kids to learn to be not just be accepted(as it is usually goes in schools) but to be around other kids who are just like them and create success and feel achieved.I have no regrets for the public school Ben is at, they have tried their best, our TVI is an Angel!!

    (This post was edited by the author on 11/11/2012 )



  • 31 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by bernard on 01/07/2013

    New to this site: Looking for feedback:

    Our son will be 11 later this month in 5th grade- up until now he has been fully mainstreamed , other learning/cognition issues - recently due to FEVR lost all sight in his remaining working eye and has not received any Braille instruction before now.

    What amount of Braille instruction does this community feel is appropriate for him to receive on a daily/weekly basis from a TVI?



  • 32 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by JoZ on 04/09/2013

    bernard...I recommend that your child receive braille instruction daily at a minimum of 40 minutes. It should also be done one-on-one with a TVI, until your child is able to read to learn, not learn to read. You may want to check into before/after school and/or summer tutoring so as to maximize your child's in general education time, and not be pulled out of class too often or for too long. The one-on-one instruction with a TVI will most likely be during regular school hours. Additional time will only help. And, if you are willing, you may want to learn braille yourself through the Hadley School for the Blind. They have courses for parents of blind children.

    (This post was edited by the author on 04/09/2013 )



  • 33 . Re: Main Streaming -vs- School for the Blind
    Posted by Misty6178 on 04/30/2013

    My daughter just turned 14 and in the 7th grade she has very little light perception, so she is a Braille reader. We started school at 9 months old shortly after finding out she was blind, this was through early childhood development. At age 3 there was a elementary across town that had a classroom of visually impaired children with a VI Teacher for her preschool years. I continued to mainstream, because she is the oldest of three and I wanted her to have the opportunity just like everyone else. I have had her try and do everything that everyone else does it may look different or we may improvise. She plays sports with Special Olympics, such as track, bowling and basketball skills. She can also play a Conga Drum, a little on the Trumpet and Clarinet she belongs to the 7th grade band, Marimba Band, and Jazz Band.
    Now the early school years made me feel confident of my decision to mainstream she had friends and did most of the classroom work with some exceptions, such as the assignment would be write 20 spelling words 4x's each, which she would complain about taking to long and her hands hurt, so we reduced the list. Now she is faced with words she has never seen and don't know how to spell, let alone Braille them in the contracted form accurately. Another lesson learned on my part.
    But now she is in middle school and sometimes she will go all day and no one talks to her, which saddens her and myself. I tell her middle school is tough on anyone and no one wants to be close to a adult at that age, which she has a aide very close to use as needed at all times except lunch. I think it is time for her to be able to share her feelings and frustrations with other blind middle school students. She also needs some work on learning independent living skills to prepare her for what comes next, such as college and hopefully in time a family of her own. I also need her to catch up in her Braille skills, she needs to know when to advocate for herself and gain that confidence, so I have filled out the application for the school of the blind, which is four hours away. We took a tour of the school in our state and it seems to be a outstanding school! I have toured other state blind schools and I can't say the same. This has been a agonizing decision, but I have tried to teach her everything I can and I have realized I'm no expert. I have to give her this opportunity to attend the state school for the blind and look at it as the great opportunity that it is. People fought for the rights to have a state funded school for deaf and blind people to educate them and have them functioning in society rather than stories I've read about how blind and deaf were once treated by society. Now the blind are working in congress as if they didn't lack a thing.
    As a parent it is my job to make her a self sufficient independent young lady. The Blind school will provide the skills she will need to accomplish her goals. My goal needs tools that I don't have and this was a harsh realization as her mom, but I have to do this so I know I did all I could to help her gain independence and self esteem. I know this is a great opportunity for her, although she is not happy about this decision, but were gonna give it a honest try in the fall. I have enrolled her in a track meet there and a sports camp during the summer and hopefully while we are visiting the school during those times she will make some friends and be more excited about going in the fall.
    I met a boy while touring the school and his grades were always low while being mainstreamed, which effected his self esteem. He is a 7th grader and had only been there for 3 months and he was so proud of his grades now that he had transferred to the blind school as he was hanging out with three other boys laughing and fitting in for a change. I think a lot of parents realize that it's ok to go to the blind school especially when middle school comes and it is a opportunity for my child to grow. I just want to give her the best chance in life. They are experts working with our children 24/7 doing things the right way. She can always come back. If you don't try you will never know what could have been.


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